Why Parent-School Communication Is Broken — And How to Fix It

Welcome to the Where Parents Talk podcast. We help grow better parents through science, evidence, and the lived experience of other parents.

Learn how to better navigate the mental and physical health of your tween teen or young adult through proven expert advice. Here's your host, Lianne Castelino.

Welcome to Where Parents Talk. My name is Lianne Castelino. Our guest today is a former educator and an entrepreneur.

Shani Dowell is the founder of possip, a parent engagement platform built to close the loop between home and school. She's also a fundraiser and a mother of two. Shani joins us today from Nashville, Tennessee. Thank you so much for taking the time.

Thanks for having me.

Really interesting conversation because I have seen this from multiple angles, and we're talking about that relationship between the parent and the school teacher, that whole environment. You began your career as a teacher before founding possip.

Was there a defining moment for you where you realized that there was potentially a gap between what the teachers were hearing and what the parents were trying to convey?

Well, it's interesting.

So I, before teaching, I worked in business, but teaching was a time where I felt my ability to lead a classroom because you're responsible as a teacher for 100, 150 students. And through that experience, I learned about myself as a leader.

But it actually was years later when I was sitting down with my husband, who leads is almost a superintendent of school. So he had 10 schools that he was leading.

And there was a parent who she was frustrated, so she was emailing and yelling at the teacher, then the school leader, then my husband. And so it was dinner table conversation that he and I were having where he was sharing that experience.

I was sympathizing with a parent by this time, as a former teacher and as a mother. And I was thinking, there has to be a better way.

This is very stressful for you as a school administrator, but this is also stressful for this parent who's trying to negotiate probably feeling like her kid was getting a detention she thought he didn't deserve.

And so through that experience, I just thought there's got to be a better way for us to, one, make it easy for parents to share, but then two, make it accessible and digestible for administrators and teachers to listen.

Absolutely. And it's such an interesting dynamic for the times we live in. Right.

Because there's a whole pocket of parents where it's hyper parenting that that's what they've led with.

And then you've got increasing amounts of pressure on educators and everything going on in the School social media management and all those other things that are affecting this dynamic. What have you observed in the world that we live in today as it relates to the service that you offer?

All of the dynamics you describe make it really hard for parents to engage and for schools and districts to listen. Especially coming out of the pandemic, because of health reasons, schools and districts had their doors closed.

And so because when parents have come in, there have been some bad, I would say, bad actors. There are parents who are outliers, who are over the top, do too much and make it a really hostile environment for schools and teachers.

They are the outlier, though.

And so that's created for the overall school dynamic where there's fear of letting parents in, letting parents be engaged, because there's a fear that parents don't understand or will do too much. And at the same time, we have access to so much information and so many places to share information. So parents want to be more engaged.

What they need in terms of communication is heightened. It's more than it's ever been before. But the school and districts are overwhelmed with too many things to do.

And then also a sense of, well, we can't let them in because there's too much that we're going to have to explain or do.

So it's just this really mismatch in terms of what parents are wanting and how they want to be engaged and how schools are opening their doors or not opening their doors for that engagement. And so we think there are easier solutions like what we do.

But the cultural shifts make it very difficult and also makes it hard for the schools and districts to desire the level of engagement that parents really want.

So you bring such an interesting perspective to this. Your background as we just outlined. So take us through what led you to create POSUP and what does POSSIB do?

Yeah, so POSIP really helps organizations hear from their community. And we specifically focus on K 12, pre K to 12 schools.

And the community that we want them to hear from is their families, their students and their staff. But we started off with parents, and so the way we thought to do that.

I share the original story where my husband and I were having this dinner table conversation where he was expressing some stress about this parent who was angry. And so then I thought, what have we made it really easy for parents to share what's going well, what's not, and do it on a routine basis?

So as often as weekly, they get a prompt, they get the prompt in their language. So so many schools are very, you Know linguistically diverse parents get a prompt in their language. Are you happy with the school?

They say yes, mostly or no. If they get it, they say yes. They're prompted for praise, questions or ideas.

If they say mostly or no, they're prompted for what would make your experience better. The school or district can also add in their own question. And all of that goes into our platform and it's qualitative feedback.

There's this intimate question which is, are you happy? So that's like a measure that you can measure and trend and track. But the qualitative feedback is where so much rich information comes.

So what are they happy about? What is something a teacher did? What, what are they worried about?

Hey, my kid is we're going through poverty right now or we're going through trouble paying for uniforms or my kids in first grade and still not reading. There's so many things that parents can share when they're prompted. But so many systems that exist are very closed ended.

So there's never a space for a parent to share all the open ended things that are on their mind. And I know from going through this with myself, with my own kids, especially with your first.

And you go, when I took my kids to daycare for the first time, part of why I was so happy is I was like, oh, this person knows more about like a 1 year old than I do. And schools have so much more experience seeing things, so they can help a parent.

If a parent's able to raise their hand and say, hey, my kids in first grade and not reading the school with that information can go and make a different direction. Whereas for that parent, that's the first time they've had a kid who's in first grade. So they don't know what to expect.

So anyway, so that's a little bit about how it works.

So the parents get the prompt via text message or email they share, that goes into a report for the school that then goes rolled up to the district and so really within a matter of days.

So if a parent gets a prompt on a Friday, by that Monday, that school or district has that data to know, okay, how happy are people, what's going well, what's not. And all of that data is also trended.

So they can see, all right, let's say five people mentioned bullying, let's see what they're saying and then they can start taking action.

How interesting.

So then how does that get back to the parent with the original, you know, form that they filled out and if they forgot actionable items that they wanted addressed. How did they.

Yeah, so that's part of it. Yeah, Part of it is they articulated they want follow up.

Some parents want to share anonymously, in which case they have to just put it out there and hope for the best. But we do give parents an opportunity to share their name so the school or district can follow up directly with that parent if it's a direct issue.

Maybe for example, IEPs or special education accommodations being met as something that comes up especially during COVID food needs or just other supports, mental health supports comes up quite a bit. So those parents can get followed up with directly.

And then the school or district is also looking for trends, what are things that we're seeing across? And then they have what we call a360 script that they can send out communication to everyone.

So the recommendation is typically follow up with parents who need individual follow up, send out communication broadly for the overall community and then also have a place where you're just holding on to things for strategic planning. So maybe you got feedback about how enrollment went this week or.

Car lines are always a big thing, especially in places where, you know, in a lot of the country, a lot of the cities in the US don't have a lot of public transportation. So car lines can be hours long events. But take that for next year when you're planning.

So it's also taking some of that information for the future as well. But those are the three ways that that typically parents hear back.

It's so interesting. What has been the feedback that you've received from parents who are part of possip as well as school administrators and then separately teachers.

So for parents, part of what they love is first of all just the opportunity to reflect. Parents are just moving so fast. And so when they get to just stop and breathe and answer this question like oh, am I happy with the school?

What is going well? What, how is my child showing up? So they just love the prompting of the question as part of what we get.

They love the opportunity to share because they often assume that schools or districts or whatever organizations aren't interested. So. So a lot of parents are very apologetic about sharing when they're not prompted.

But when they get prompted through posip, they feel invited to share and so they really appreciate that invitation and it also opens them up to being able to share more routinely. So that's from parents for school administrators. And I would say it's.

They love the easier way that parents can share so that they're not opening up a car door and then not Knowing if there's going to be an angry parent on the other side or picking up the phone and not knowing what to expect. They love being able to solve problems really quickly and so the problems don't have to linger.

Sometimes, you know, schools are working on like very big goals, third grade reading or getting kids into college. And those are very long term. But to be able to solve a problem on a Friday feels really good.

And so they love that feeling of being able to solve problems. It is also, you know, not easy because they do see everything. They see the good and the bad. And so that can create some stress.

But they also know that those are things that exist anyway, that by knowing what's happening doesn't make it more stressful, it's just that that exists. And so that's something we hear. And then the third thing is teachers. Teachers love getting praise that's authentic from parents.

Parents sometimes don't share even positive feedback because they don't want to seem like a brown noser. They don't want to seem like, oh, I'm just trying to butter you up for my kid.

So parents have a lot of positive feedback that they're not sharing, but through a system they'll share it. And they also often want to share it so that their supervisor knows.

So yes, I want my kids teacher to know they're good, but I want their principal to know that I think they're good. And so they love getting that level of visibility of the good things that are happening.

And then also we hear from people who aren't teachers but who are in the building, who parents see and shout out. So for example, there was a librarian and I was at the school for some other event and she said, oh, it's so great.

I've gotten so much positive feedback from parents. But typically she wouldn't have got that because she doesn't see the same kids, kids day to day.

But she, she has plays a very important role in this school.

And so that's the other thing is that parent people who are maybe like cafeteria workers or librarians or people who are speaking into the day of kids but who aren't in a classroom, they also love hearing all the positive things parents have to say about them and how everyone shapes the experience of kids in the school. And so, so that's really powerful as well.

You know, it strikes me that at the end of the day what we're talking about here is more effective communication, right? And being, feel, feel being seen and heard, especially if you're a parent.

So if with that context, how has your own lived experience as a parent shaped possib?

That's such a great question.

So part of what happened when I was at the center table conversation with my husband is I was also thinking about all the times as a mom I was at the playground after school. So as a working mom, I'd work and then around 3:30, go get my kids and then give my kids some time to play.

So we spend about an hour at the playground and moms talk. And there's so much rich information in those conversations that never make it through the front door.

And so that was part of what I had in mind is like we've got all these rich perspectives of people that really would benefit the school. Like us. Talking about it is great, but the way it gets better or changes is by getting it to the school. So that's one thing that really shaped me.

But I think having been a teacher also and worked across such a diversity of people, I know what I know and still I find it hard sometimes to communicate with the school. So I was a teacher, my husband's a school leader.

We have so much understanding of what are these standardized tests, where's, you know, what's college, what's this? And it still can be hard for us.

And so that just made me empathize and think about parents who I knew had less information, had fewer tools at their disposal to share when things were going off track or even harder for parents to know if things are off track educationally.

So I think just knowing and seeing things from so many different perspectives gave me an appreciation for one, how important it is for parents to be able to share their perspective, but then also how hard it is and how much better schools and districts and really all institutions are when they've got the voices and the eyes and perspective of those people who care most about that place of success with them.

Absolutely. We hear many schools focus on parent engagement. Take us through the distinction between engagement and actually listening to parents.

And why is that an important distinction to make?

I love this question so much. Because parent engagement is one of those things that no one says they don't want parent engagement. Everyone says they love parent engagement.

And you can engage people and parents in particular, and it'd still be very one directional. So you can have a, you can engage a parent. I am putting up air quotes by having them come to a parent teacher night.

Parent teacher nights are awesome. I just went to meet the teacher night.

My kids, both their schools had it on the same night, which was very Hard to navigate, but it's still relatively one directional. Meet the teacher night. You can engage a parent by giving them a newsletter, but it's also still one directional.

So you can't listen to a parent, truly listen to a parent, without changing your mindset and seat. And so that's where the true partnership comes, because listening to parents invites them to pull a chair up to the table.

And it's a really a new skill for the institution, for the individuals to listen to parents. And so I think that's really the difference is the power dynamics are such that you can engage and stay in power.

Like for example, if a politician has a day where they invite people to come and talk, you know, they're, they're, that's, that's a form of engagement, but it's not necessarily listening.

And so one of the things we've seen is that it's really a new skill to parents when they have the opportunity to share in a way they're like, because parents are so unaccustomed to being asked what they think about their child, the places that are shaping their child's experience, they often don't even have the vocabulary to share. So I really think engagement can still be one directional. It's important and it's a starting point. But listening is bi directional.

It's two way, and it really changes the person on the other end. So both people get changed by listening.

And that's not the case with a lot of the ways in which schools and districts and institutions typically communicate with parents.

Because typically they're pushing information out that they want people to take in, but they don't necessarily get it back on the other side or give the person an opportunity to share back.

And often the school doesn't understand that maybe what they're pushing out is not on the radar of the parent. They're not interested in it. That is not the question that they had. And so it's never being answered. And it just keeps going and going.

And we saw this, yeah, we saw this really acutely in a very funny way with COVID where we had different, you know, schools and districts were making really important decisions. Do we reopen? How do we reopen? And so some of them were planning to communicate things like we're going to reopen and we're going to require this.

But then they realized that the parents who were comfortable with reopening didn't want certain attributes. And so we talk about that a lot too. It's at least helpful to contextualize communication. It may not Change what your message is.

But if you don't know what's top of mind for people, then you're not contextualizing the communication or part of what happens. And we see this a lot, and to the point of communication.

What we might be as a teacher or as a school administrator, what might be occupying our minds is one thing. And so we're talking about that all the time. When parents are, are not thinking about that at all, but they're thinking about, is my child?

Well, are they healthy?

I mean, I'd say testing is a really great example where, you know, at a school level, and I know this as a teacher, I taught middle school math, you're so focused on the academic success. Is the student going to be ready to pass this test, do well in this test?

Whereas for a parent, I mean, especially in middle school, they're still like, they're, they're trying to figure out who is this child, this person is changing before my eyes. This state test is not something that's top of mind for me.

So when you listen to them, though, you're able to take that information and then communicate better. So it doesn't say, okay, because his parents not thinking about the state test. We won't think about the state test.

But it's saying, okay, we have this state test. We know parents are thinking about other things because we're listening to them.

How can I build a bridge between those so that we can then all be, you know, moving better, faster?

Yeah. Along those lines, many parents hesitate to speak up because they don't want to be labeled as difficult.

For example, what would you firstly say to those parents and how does possip help navigate and facilitate that dynamic?

I would first say for parents who really are afraid to speak up that it's totally normal and it totally makes sense. And I truly think that most parents really lack the tools and skills to speak up.

And so part of what I want to share is that there are tools and skills that help you feel more confident speaking up. We often take for granted that many of us have had jobs and places where we've been invited to share what we think.

And then even educationally, in the United States, about a one third of the adult population has a college education. And college is a place where a lot of people are really taught that your ideas and your opinions matter.

And many adults haven't operated with that luxury. So they don't have that freedom of, hey, I work in places where my ideas and experiences matter.

And then secondarily that there are tools and skills that you can use to share your perspective.

So I think that's one thing to just have as a baseline which is helping people know that it's totally learnable how to share in a way that is effective.

And also that places may not always want your ideas and experiences, but even if they, they don't want it you, it is important for you to share your ideas and experiences. But then let's assume parents are like me. I, you know, I've built a company around feedback, so clearly it's something I feel comfortable with.

But even I struggle quite a bit.

And so a few of the reasons why I struggle is one, assuming you know, one, if you assume you're the outlier who is feeling some pain, point or issue, then you're a little more nervous. So I do think that's why it's helpful.

Those mom playgrounds that I was talking about are helpful so that you can normalize your issue and feel like, hey, is this something that others are experiencing? Am I out of, you know, whack with this? So I think that knowledge of whether or not you're the outlier is helpful.

Like I mentioned before, sometimes we don't want to share thought positive because we're afraid to be perceived as a brown noser and then out for that I would just say it's okay, let's just Brown knows.

I know for not wanting to seem negative as, as working moms or just moms in general being too busy and not wanting to start a chain of event conversations, sometimes I hesitate to share because I'm like, I don't want to have to sit in another room talking about this. I just want to, I want someone to know about it and I want to move on. I don't want to have a follow up conversation.

And so, and then the last one that I think is just hard is just when people see evidence that people in power just don't care, I think that that's really hard to overcome. And so I think a lot of people assume that people just don't care. And sometimes they do.

But I think that's why it's so important for organizations to show in an outsized way that you care.

And so I think that's why, you know, even for us, what we hear from parents is even something like possib becomes an indicator to parents, they want to hear from us.

And so it just creates an easier conversation but because it's a lot harder when you're assuming they don't want to hear and then the other is you know, where you do try to share and a lot of parents do, they like test small and they say, okay, I'm going to try something that's like lower stakes and see how you respond. And if places don't respond well, then they're like, why bother on something? Higher stakes. Yeah.

Building on that point, is there a particular misconception, Johnny, that you have run into that schools have about what parents really want? And conversely, what parents, what misconception do parents have about schools?

I think they. Yes, that's a great question. Around the misconception that parents in schools might have around each other.

I'd say the big one, and this is part of what led me to start possip, is I just think they forget that they are actually on the same page. Both want the most successful experience for the students entering the building, whether that's their one student or, you know, all the hundreds.

But I think that's the biggest misconception.

And part of why that is so important important is because then you're at the same starting point or at least ending point, and so then you can plan from there. And I think part of why that gets perpetuated is because they don't have open channels of communication.

And so often they are pitted against each other when, and we see this through our feedback, a lot of times they are actually on the same page. One example is again during COVID you know, we were doing a lot of virtual classrooms and they were virtual classes for kindergarteners.

One of our partners, parents were saying, hey, this is really hard for me to have my 5 year old on Zoom from 8 to 3. And then teachers, they were doing pulse checks with teachers too. And teachers were saying, hey, this is really hard for us to have these kids on.

But both of them were doing it for the other because the parents were like, well, the school's telling us we need to do this, so I guess we need to do this. And the teachers are doing saying, well, hey, parents probably want us to occupy their kid.

And then once they share the data and information they both had, they realized, oh, neither of us think this is a good idea. Let's figure out what we think is a good idea by talking with each other.

And so I just think that we've seen time and time again where once they can really know what each other is thinking and experiencing, they can partner together better.

But that does come from also assuming the best about each other and remembering that they're both on the same page in terms of wanting success for kids as they come through the school building. Yeah.

And that becomes so easy to forget.

Right.

It's. It's a really great reminder. Shani, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about. About the origin of the name Possum.

So it's funny. So sometimes people think it's parent gossip. It is a little bit of parent gossip, but it's really about positive gossip.

So the human brain is hardwired to gossip. Research shows that.

And so the idea is to take advantage of that human brain hardwiring and use it for positive means, which is to make sure that the gossip that's happening on the playground enters in, in a productive and positive way. Also, it came from, I used to love to say back when I was like in my, my youth, my 20s, like to positive gossip about people.

So I like people to hear that I talked about them in a good way. So it's also from that as an inspiration as well.

Well, and the fact is there is such a thing as, as being positive about it. Right?

Like the fact that your platform also asks about the positives and the good things, I think is so refreshing because when you think about parents and teachers in schools, it tends to seem to be negative off the start. Right. And. And that's just not the only.

That's not the only feedback.

So it's so important for parents who maybe don't have possip in their school or access to it, who feel like they're not being heard by their school or the teacher. Where should they begin, do you think? And what, like, what's the first productive conversation you would suggest that they have and with whom?

And this is, I mean, I have these experiences. I've been in schools with possib, I've been in schools without pasip. And I do think, I think people might have different opinions about this.

I think the first place to start is hopefully you have a community at the school where your child attends of other parents who you can talk to and normalize whatever your issue is. And part of why I think that's so important is to clarify what you're thinking, to normalize and say, hey, is this a reasonable expectation feeling?

And then three, maybe have some context for, hey, I know this is also happening for this teacher. This might be why. So I think just getting more information with someone who's like a safer place to start with.

Once you've had that and you still feel like, okay, I need to have a more formal conversation, I recommend sending an email to start. We have some resources on our website about sending emails. I think emails to start or a text message are helpful for a few reasons.

If you're comfortable putting whatever's happening in writing, part of it is to give the people information before they meet because that can help them be less defensive.

Part of what, that's part of what we try to do within the platform is create a way where when a principal or a teacher is meeting with you, they don't have to be defensive because they've been able to read it, go and interrogate and find out the information and then come to a meeting with you with answers.

And so often if a parent calls a school or calls a teacher and they're like real time having to take in all the information, a principal is not going to want to throw a teacher under the bus. So if you're calling about a teacher, they're not going to be able to say, hey, yeah, you're right, she was horrible, she did xy.

You know, they would need to go and be able to research and understand what happened to be able to have a productive conversation.

So I do think setting up an email and sending the email with an intention to set up a time to have the conversation and then once you have the conversation, really just starting with facts and then just giving them a space to share. The challenge is that a lot of schools and teachers are not trained in how to have effective parent conversations.

So it really, you know, we've done some of those and especially for new teachers, you know, they're, they're not trained and it really takes a lot of role playing. And so I think that's why sometimes when the conversations happen, they're very unsatisfying because to the listening.

A lot of schools and teachers, they haven't been taught how to listen and a lot of parents, you know this, you know, they don't have the experience of sharing. But I, I think that would be my recommendation.

Sometimes it's helpful to bring in like a third party who may not be as involved because they can help facilitate. And a lot of times we'll see parents needing to share about very sensitive things that have happened.

Either their child is being bullied or their IEP or academic supports aren't being met. So emotions can run high. And so how do you have that conversation and without it getting escalating? Because that's, you don't want it to escalate.

So those are some of my thoughts.

Yeah, no, that's interesting because of your, you know, your, your multi pronged approach perspective on this.

So are there Specific questions then that you would suggest a parent may want to consider asking their child's teacher at the beginning of a new school year to be proactive and sort of set the foundation for that relationship.

That's. Yeah, that's a great question.

First, I, especially in elementary school, where you really are relying on the teacher to share more, what is your communication approach? How often should I expect to hear from you?

And then, well, so there are questions you should ask yourself, and then there may be questions you should ask them. So some questions I consider is, how many, how, how many years has this teacher been teaching? How new, new are they to the school?

And part of why that matters is I can have a context for like, what do they even know?

Like, a first year teacher could tell you lots of stuff, but it's all hoops and dreams because they haven't actually had the experience of knowing what they're going to be like. In reality, if they're new to the school, they might be going through an adjustment themselves based on the culture of the school.

But assuming they've been in the school, they've got principal, you know, they know how things work and they've been there for a number of years. Yeah. I would ask, you know, what do you typically see? What, what do you consider a successful year?

And then I would share back, as a parent, what your expectations are. And that can be really hard.

And that may not be in the first meeting, but often you'll find that teachers have expectations of your kids and they might have expectations of you, and they may not match what your expectations are. So as an example, a teacher might think like a, a student getting all B's is great and that's fine.

And so they'll reach out if your students not getting Bs. But you might think, no, I expect my kids to get a mix of A's and B's, or all A's.

Or, you know, they might say, hey, so and so did great on this test. They got a 75. Well, maybe y' all don't think that's great or maybe you do think that's great.

May so I just think having a clarity around what your expectations are and having a space to share that with the teacher is really helpful because otherwise there can be some disappointment. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, for those of us who are entrepreneurs, there's so much that you learn that you don't expect and the learning just continues every day, right?

It sure does.

I'm curious as to what kinds of leadership lessons you've learned that have surprised you the most. And how do they translate into parenting with your whole possup journey?

Oh, I love it. Well, one of my favorite ones is on this entrepreneurial journey. So my. My Both my kids play are big soccer players.

They both have ambitions of playing in college. And sometimes it's very similar to the entrepreneurial path. You're planting seeds, and you just don't know how they're gonna flourish.

And so one of the. It's actually really came from my daughter and it from me talking to my daughter.

But then I realized, oh, actually this is back to me as an entrepreneur is I was telling her, you know, hey, the process is the outcome. Like, I, like, don't worry so much about if it lands where you expect it to land. Part of it is just doing the process, and then that.

That's what you're working towards. So that's something that I realized. I was like, oh, that's really me speaking to myself as an entrepreneur. But similarly to her. I think having.

Well, this is rather obvious. But multitasking. You just have to be good at so many things as an entrepreneur because you're wearing so many hats.

And that's certainly a connection to parenting. I'd say getting out there, I think it's funny. I probably. I'm having more experiences of, like, the. Yeah.

The entrepreneurs of the parent getting out there. Sometimes I. Because I'm working so much, I can have to force myself a bit more to get out there in the parenting realm.

But you get so much rich information when you talk to people and understand what people's experiences are. So those are a few. I think as I'm getting older, I think saying reconnected to yourself.

I think as a parent and as an entrepreneur, you can lose yourself a little bit in those different roles. And so getting back, I was. I just turned 50, so I was back in Houston with, like, middle school friends and friends from my 20s.

And it was so grounding to remind myself, oh, this is who I am. Because as a parent, you get so, you know, you got like, again, I'm on soccer fields every weekend.

You know, that's now part of my identity that was not part of me 20, 30 years ago. Entrepreneur. I'm, you know, I'm at all these convenings or speaking or writing.

And so getting back around as to who I am outside of those identities is super helpful.

We're almost out of time, Shani. But I did want to ask you. You know, we live in uniquely challenging times. Whether you're a parent, a child, an educator, administrator in education.

What gives you hope as you look into the future about the relationship between schools and parents and what that could look like moving forward?

Yeah, I truly am so thankful. I've always had work where I've always worked with people who are somewhere, I guess I could say between 0 and 30. I've always worked with, with.

With younger people in some capacity, and they give me hope always. And just the way that they see the world and how that. That is shaping the future world, I really love and appreciate.

And what I'll say is they're timeless. I feel like young people are timeless. New challenges. New. Yeah, new challenges.

But at the core, if we can keep them connected to each other like the humans connected to each other, then I think everything else will. Will roll in really hopeful ways.

And so I just appreciate that schools, we've seen schools build more empathetic people again once we can take people off of social media and like into actual connection conversation. And so I remain really hopeful about just the power of schools to bring people together and to connect them meaningfully as humans.

I think it's interesting because we are at a time where schools are, you know, there's more homeschooling, there's more other methods. But I think.

I think if we can figure out ways, even within all those different structures, to still bring people together in meaningful ways, I have hope in humanity and the future of what we can achieve.

Really interesting conversation. Shani Dowell, former educator and founder of possip. Thank you so much for your time and your perspective today.

Thank you.

To learn more about today's podcast, guest and topic, as well as other parenting themes, visit whereparents talk.com.